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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  March 20, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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woman, even in a case if a man is intimidated or beating a woman and threatened to use a firearm in many states, the man is able to keep the firearm due to efforts by the gun lobby. >> look at what's at stake in terms of gun death for women. 90% killed by someone they know. 2010. 574 shot to death by a husband, ex-husband, or boyfriend. there's 574 right there. a woman is two times more likely to be shot to death by male intimates than being killed by in any other way by a stranger. the nra scenario is the stranger that comes in, i, a woman, have to have the assault rifle near the bed as gail trotter said to kill the stranger that comes in the house. much more likely it is going to be someone the woman was intimately involved with. >> when the nra circles pro-gun
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forums, i never see discussion of domestic violence for women at risk by intimate partners with firearms. it is a scenario a woman needs to defend herself, it is a rare case a woman is in position to do that. it is more likely a woman is subject to intimidation or violence by an intimate partner using a firearm against them. monday of this week, lawrence, a man in arizona was convicted of manslaughter for shooting his girlfriend in the face with an ar-15 rifle, the same rifle used in newtown and used in aurora. so these are not hypotheticals, these are real cases. >> why should they give up rights if they haven't been convicted, people give up passports all the time before they're convicted of things. >> the nra is not interested in anything that will have citizens, in particular men, relinquishing their firearms for almost any reason. the hypocrisy, wayne la pierre says those that use those guns should be in jail, but those
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that use them to attack, the nra is on the other side. it is a great hypocrisy, will hurt them in years to come. >> thanks, frank. >> thank you, lawrence. religious war. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. i'm not washington. let me start tonight with this. you can't steer a car with the engine off. it's problem with the republican party today. get rid of the cultural right, abortion and gay marriage, all those began who moving to the republican party over prayer in public school years ago and you kill one giant engine. get rid of the whackos as john mccain cats them and you lose
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another engine. all the libertarians who just want government out of their face and out of their lives and you kell another engine. try to do what reince priebus is doing right now and you will see the problem, try steering the car with your engine dead. try steering the political party once you kill the motor. you set out to kill the big motors of the republican party itself. for progressives the amazing thing here is people on the left, center left, and a big share of the center right now are together. they know why the republican established wants to free itself from the issues, they are relieved, thrilled really, it not them trying to hold together a motley crew. senior strategist for rick santorum's political campaign. let me go -- i want to start with the basic question of a political party. this week's republican autopsy report it's being called urged the party to be more inclusive
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of gay people, women, minorities, did not go unnoticed by the social conservative wing of the party. the report makes little of their concerns. the report never mentions the word christian or church. there's know -- no talk of abortion. taking his base for granted. he told the national review, quote, i just think right now there's a lot of concern in the party about both satisfying the money wing of the party and keeping libertarians on board. what we shouldn't do is say to the electorate, just tell us what you want us to be. we'll change for you. just tell us what you want us to do. we'll do it. that's not a political party. that's just a bunch of pandering idiots. is that the nature of reince priebus effort? we want everybody to vote republican but we don't want it to matter too much to them on abortion and gay rights and cultural values. we don't want those to get in the way. >> i don't think that's exactly what the report did. i honestly -- >> did it mention any of this
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stuff? >> i think priebus did a pretty good job saying we have a problem. i think people are going to interpret the report the way they want. one of the things that i thought was problematic, they never said, look, we we have "x" core values. there's a home for them in the republican party but they never re-established the core values. some of the things relative to the presidential primaries. built in were biases which help wealthy candidates and frankly hurt tea party candidates and libertarians and that's billed throughout the effort. i do think it was a good effort. i think it's just a start. >> i think you've been very -- you're a politician and political consultant and you've got to say it the way you just said it. let's get back to reality. we go to joan on this. i know you're on the other side of this, but you're probably enjoying it. i am, too, to a large extent. if you join the republican party since the last 50 years a lot of people who join the republican
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party didn't get rich and become republican, they were already evangelical, already culturally conservative. they went over and joined the republican party because the republican party is willing to say we'll bring religion -- organized prayer back to public school. we'll outlaw abortion. we won't go along with this new trend towards gay rights. we're with you in the church. how do you tell those people the reason you joined the republican party they don't want to push too hard anymore, in fact, they want to sort of closet it? >> you can't really tell them that so they are not exactly saying that. you've got a spectacle where reince priebus is saying, yes, we want gay people to vote for us but we won't change your policies. we won't give them equal rights. we've seen him backtrack now on gay marriage and, you know, we want african-americans to vote for us but we're going to suppress their votes in lots of states. so it's totally contradictory. they recognize they have a branding problem and messaging problem and, chris, the voters
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you're talking about have gotten old and some of them have passed away and left us. and the issue -- >> joan, you have just -- you have just basically said that your party is dying. >> well, first of all -- >> it is dying. >> you probably should take a look at how many governor's offices we do hold to see that this party is far from dying. they're generally pro life, they're generally pro gun, they're generally pro marriage. >> it doesn't matter? >> they're not defined by that. >> if you vote for a pro life governor you're assured of one thing it doesn't matter because he's not going to change roe v. wade. >> i will say this. as a party we make a big mistake and spend too much time on the issues. in that report there are two very -- >> i'm going to debate you on this. >> go ahead. >> the working class or the poor southerner, person making a decent income but not a lot,
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they don't carry about wall street. they care about christian religion, baptist religion, and they would like to have that inculturated throughout their life. you say the rich get richer but this religion stuff -- >> no, that became the core value. >> it's not libertarianism or religion. >> there's a lot of people worry at night. believe me, they're not sitting there saying, geez, let's have more tax breaks for the wealthy and more loopholes to corporates. >> that's where your party stands. >> we have fought that battle and it's a mistake. we've got to get back to talking to middle income people about how they can reach the american dream. that's why we lost pennsylvania and ohio, wisconsin, michigan. we've got to get back to having people feel like we understand their lives. we're not about just tax breaks for the wealthy. >> do you think -- i like your values here, by the way. i'd like to see your party really compete.
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democratic party offers pell grants, opportunities for working class kids to go to college, social security for people over 65 so they can avoid being below the poverty line. what has your party put up in that bidding war? what do you offer for those regular people? >> not enough. i'll give you way of example. we like to say that we're the pro life party. we're really not. we're the pro birth party. >> it's in your platform. >> we fight for the unborn. >> john, it's right there in your platform. >> i'm saying pro life is more than just birth. it's after birth. so do we fight as hard for an african-american child in new york that goes -- >> joan, he's on your side. >> well, he's not. >> we can do that. >> go ahead. >> i respect your values, john, but i don't think you have anything to offer those young people either. the report says we're going to speak out about rising ceo pay and speak out about people losing their jobs. but speak out means nothing. what are your policies? why did the republican party dismantle the opportunity structure that created the vast middle class in the '40s, '50s, '60s.
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why did republicans decide that rich people needed to keep more money. why did george bush have a massive experiment in getting rich people back their money only to see the economy falling apart. you're not winning on those issues, either, john. >> joan, you're so right. you are better on this than i am normally. equal pay for equal women. your party has been slow on that. >> i agree. i'm following our party. those are the changes that we should be making. here's what the real difference between the two parties in my opinion are. >> okay. >> the republican party has always said we're going to make sure you have opportunity that leads to unlimited success but not guaranteed success. that was the american dream. we've given that up because people say it's not attainable anymore and the democrats are selling we will give you guaranteed success but it's going to be very limited. >> who says that? >> no one guarantees success. >> find -- >> it's the governmental --
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>> there's no one who wants to guarantee success. >> i've never heard that anywhere. >> no, it's all about equal opportunity. we are about guaranteeing equal opportunity. we are about leveling the playing field. we're about bringing people up. and this is what worked in our society, john, when we were all children. this is what worked for generations of people. and then in the '70s we started cutting it back. that's where we are now. that's what your party hasn't reckoned it. >> you know how i got in this chair? my dad was g.i. bill, in the navy in world war ii. he went to college. became middle class. four brothers and mine. i got here because i got the holy cross, good college. got national defense education loans i was in the peace corps, changed my lives. my father worked for the city of philadelphia. i have no problem with public service. that's where i'm at. that's how i got here. your party says that's degraded. i got a 47% because my father is on a g.i. bill and ended up on social security. what's wrong with government? >> look it -- >> good for most people. am i addicted to government?
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>> first of all, as a country, particularly to washington they're addicted to spending. we created this massive point -- >> you're on there. that's your winning -- you got the win card right there. >> manufacturing, obama says those jobs are gone forever. >> he does not say that, actually. >> when did he say that? >> president obama did not say that. >> we've got to admit those jobs are gone. >> no. >> some. >> he worked hard to bring back manufacturing. >> perhaps most typical -- let's get back to our report. reince priebus, it's about communication but the party never tried to stop to distant franchise, mainly poor african-american voters since the last election. stricter photo id laws in pennsylvania and shortening the early -- taking away the early voting in sunday in florida. my colleague took him to task on that. let's listen to michael. >> how does priebus reconcile
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his approach and agreement with voter registration policies that many in the black community view as anti-black, racist. you can show up any time. it's what you say and what you do when you get there that matters most to people. >> priebus was asked about steel's criticism right there this morning by luke russert. he dodged the question. i think you will see the dodge. let's watch. >> what's your response to him? >> well, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to engage in an argument with michael. but, you know, the fact of the matter is you have to have the resources to be able to have an effective ground operation in minority communities. if you don't market and brand your party on a regular basis i think that you're going to continue to have problems. that's a big piece of what we're trying to do here. >> you know, it was well advertised by the republican party, not by you, they made a big effort to stop blacks from voting. do me, that's a message. people got it. >> i will tell you if they really did try to do that, that
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is absolutely wrong and there's no place for this in the party. >> the republican leader, this pennsylvania legislator said that's why you did it. >> well, i'm not going to answer to something i didn't see somebody say and i'm telling you on the record if somebody said that or somebody did that, it's wrong. the second problem is -- >> watch the "hardball" report and you will see it. >> we talk a lot about, oh, we're going to get african-americans to go out in the african-american community for us. so we're going to take a message that we haven't sold properly and just change the messenger. that's not right. we have never taken the time to truly understand women, hispanics, or african-americans go into the community and understand their lives and show them why our hope and our american dream is part of that. >> rush limbaugh clearly is not a fans of reince priebus. today he told his audience this. >> it's not conservatives excluding anybody. if anybody's being excluded, it is the conservatives.
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and yet these guys are coming along, these establishment guys, and trying to act like whatever this party has become they haven't been running it. if they lose elections and they blame everybody else. they're running the party. we're not. safe to say? i mean, they're getting the nominees they want and they're losing and somehow it's our fault for being exclusive? we're not excluding anybody. >> joan, last question. who lost the election the last time, people on the radio like rush, the far right? >> i think they make a really great team. i mean, rush limbaugh definitely helped lose that election. he turned off women. he was despicable in what he said about sandra fluke. but mitt romney talked about the 47%. they may not like each other but they are working together to alienate most of the american people. and that's what happened. >> joan, thank you for being with us. despite the fact that 57% of
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americans support the nra, why do they keep winning? for gun owners, winning this battle is not the only thing, it's the important thing. background check, 90% of americans support them. let your member of congress and senator know that for you on this issue winning is the only thing. also, you probably have seen this scene by the way, from last week's cpac convention where one participant defended slavery. we're going to talk to an african-american who is doing a black tea about black people who joined the tea party. and going wobbly on ashley judd and taking down other democrats wither had. key democrats, including hillary clinton and bill clinton are lining up with other democrats. fasten your seat belt. finally, why is cnn's dana bash running after michele bachmann. what is it that she clearly doesn't want to talk about? this is "hardball," the place
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life opens up when you do. well, former south carolina governor mark sanford took another step in his political comeback. sanford finished first in yesterday's congress am primary to replace tim scott who moved on to the senate. sanford won 37% of the vote which means he faces a runoff two weeks from now. the candidates in second and third place were so close there will be an automatic recount to determine who sanford will face in that runoff. on the democratic side, colbert bush, sister of stephen colbert, finished first as expected. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "hardball." harry reid dealt a devastating blow to gun control supporters
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yesterday when he signaled his bill next month won't include senator dianne feinstein's assault weapons ban. handing a political victory in round one to the nra. according to reid it was a numbers game. >> right now her amendment using the most optimistic numbers has less than 40 votes. that's not 60. i'm not going to try to put somebody on the floor that won't succeed. i want something that will succeed. >> i saw that coming. feinstein who has championed the cause for decades of fighting assault weapons plans to keep fighting for her ban. >> very powerful. i've known that all my wife. it doesn't take a weapon away from anyone. i mean, my goodness, the nra says there are 2 million of these or 3 million of them, whatever it is, in the country already. how many assault weapons do you need in the united states of america? >> well, the new york covered that this morning. look at that, wow. the headline "shame on u.s.,
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assault weapons bill is dead." that is tough. surrounded by the photos of the children there killed in newtown, connecticut. not a bad memory to keep in mind. first, just three months after newtown and eight months after the aurora, colorado, shootings in the movie theater it's time to do something. tonight i'm urging y'all to call your senators and members of congress. i don't hardly ever do this but if you have a pencil or a piece of paper write this down. you can decide whether to do it in the next hour but you ought to do it. 202 is the d.c. number. 224-3121. 224-3121. i will give that number later. it's the capitol operator. if you don't confused, they will help you. i think it is time to act if you want to have any say on this thing on gun control. i think the way to fight for this right now is the background checks. go for background checks on gun sales. this is the line of defense right now. background checks. a reasonable thing given what happened in newtown, a very disturbed person involved in killing those kids. at least find out if there are people with mental or emotional
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problems, who have bad records, shouldn't be getting guns. this is the time to see if the background checks work. mark and emily is here. thank you. i want to talk to mark. and let me just tell you what i want to do here tonight. i want to face facts. i'm a political guy. not especially spent my life finding gun safety although i did write my letter to congress. johnny carson said to do it and he was nonpolitical. i said, damn it, i'm going to write a letter. i think the line of defense and i hope you can focus on it right now is background checks. how can anybody oppose something that 92% of the american people want? in other words, any thoughtful person who isn't derangedly pro gun says, yeah, we ought to make sure the crazy people, whatever we want to call them, deranged, whatever, dangerous people, husbands who beat up wives and threaten them, people like that should not have guns. let's talk about that, if you can, mark. you're the expert. >> you're right. nobody in the public does oppose background checks.
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very few people in the actual gun lobby do, either. 74% of nra members think they should get a background check because they get background checks. >> members. what about lapierre? the people who get paid by the nra? >> there's a big difference between gun owners, gun dealers as my dad was and the nra leadership in the business of making money, paying their executives, and selling more guns. the way they do that is by creating a constant atmosphere of hysteria in which any reform is just another step on a slippery slope to gun confiscated. they said in the mcdonald decision it's now off the table. >> yeah. >> yeah, i mean, i think the nra has proven that they're better at this so far. >> describe the politics of this and why harry reid yanked assault weapons, why we never even got the magazine limit of ten rounds on your magazine for the semiautomatics.
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why that never got even in play here. >> well, i mean, it's partly a testament to the power of the nra, the power of the nra with democrats. look at what's going to happen in 2014, democrats are up in red states. people like kay hagan, folks like that who don't want to be on record supporting the assault weapons ban. the house figured as well to add the assault weapons ban to any major bill would kill it. >> even though a majority of people want a ban. >> the reality is polls don't vote. polls aren't up for re-election. all of the folks in the red states are up for re-election in 2014. i think in many ways they will be happy to vote against an amendment, this assault weapons ban, but also support universal background checks. that will make them look moderate. >> mark, how do you build an organization of people that really do keep their minds on and their money on gun safety? >> well, i think we've started to do it.
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at this point we have more than 900 mayors around the country, 100 are republicans. we have almost 1.5 million grassroot supporters and all of them are about as heated up as we have seen about anything. they recognize this is a national moment. if you're going to turn this issue around, now is the time. we've sent more than 200,000 e-mails into the white house and members of congress and shut down switch board and won a major victory in colorado that was pretty hard fought. i think the predicate is there. success is patchwork but it is going to come. >> how do you get people to remind themselves? i know this is a tough one. the gun owner cleans his gun, he packs his shells, he goes hunting, he goes skeet shooting, he has friends who are hunters. he's constantly reinvesting in their gun. they're not gun nuts but that point of view has a self energizing as expect to it. how does a person who doesn't want a gun in their house, doesn't want their kids to have a gun, doesn't even go to movies with guns in it, how does that person keep in mind and their
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hearts the determination to vote for gun safety candidates against gun rights unlimited types? >> here's how they do it. something that you know and we know is the 33 americans are murdered in this country every day with guns. that's a virginia tech or newtown tragedy every single day. but under most circumstances, most days you don't hear about that. it doesn't make news other than locally sometimes. that's changed since newtowns. people are seeing the mass shootings happening and the scale is grandeur. as a result, when one or two people have killed in idaho when you wouldn't have paid attention before, suddenly it's making headlines. our staff makes sure when people are killed who normally wouldn't pay attention to that that word gets out. >> what do you make of that kid killed down in virginia? sad case. the kid is drunk. comes home. sneaks in the window he thinks is his house. it's the neighbor's house. the guy kills him. >> right. >> with a gun.
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>> there's a difference between what happens in your house and what happens outside of your house. the law has said if you have an intruder in the house and no way to escape, you can use deadly force. our concern is like in florida that pass these shoot first laws that say if you are able to claim that you were concerned about your safety, you can shoot to kill anywhere you happen to be. >> that's what's happening. >> i think a lot of the activity is in the states. you mentioned colorado, states like maryland, new york obviously, pass very tough restrictions on guns. and that's where the action is. if you look at the history of gun laws in this country, stutter steps about ten or so pass in the history of this country, took seven years for the brady bill to finally become law and then it was challenged by the nra. this happens in fits and starts. it's not just overnight these sorts of laws have passed. and i think we're seeing the beginning. it's surprising that universal background checks might actually pass. i talked with some folks over in the house who say maybe it doesn't even come up there but
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it looks like it had momentum in the senate. >> i'm like mayor nutter in philadelphia, get the guns off the streets, too. mark glaze, thank you. i'm going to be saying by the end of the show, i think i'll mention it five times. by the way, it's 202-224-3121. call your senate right now. make some noise. up next, another whopper about president obama from none other than michele bachmann is back and she dodges a report. look at her there, trying to ask questions about bachmann, that's next. in the sideshow, right where she belongs. we'll be right back. er ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep.
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back to "hardball." now back to the sideshow. last night i attended the saturday patrick's day reception and president obama took note of the irish roots of his own administration. >> my new chief of staff is a mcdonough. my national security adviser is a donnell. our new cia director is brennan. joe biden has very kindly agreed to stay on as irishman in chief. joe couldn't be here tonight because he's on his way back from the installation of pope francis in rome. for those of you who know joe, literally the only thing that could keep him away from st. patrick's day at the white house is the installation of a new
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pope. >> nice night. by the way, jimmy fallon spotted biden in a photo at the installation mass and what might be the easiest game of where's waldo ever. >> vice president joe biden actually attended pope francis' first mass. have you seen this picture? >> yes. >> this is unbelievable. it's a picture of him in the crowd. see if you can find biden. see if you can find -- are you kidding me? this is a real photo focused up. >> next, michele bachmann earns recognition from "the washington post" for a factually challenged statement she made at cpac last week. here's the part that earned her four pinocchios from the post fact checkers. >> there is a problem. a new book is out talking about the perks and the excess of the $1.4 billion a year presidency that we're paying for. this is a lifestyle that is one of excess. now we find out that there are
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five chefs on air force one. we are also the ones who are paying for someone to walk the president's dog. paying for someone to walk the president's dog. >> well, the "washington post" points out that the $1.4 billion figure covers security expenses required to protect any president. we had right now in addition to other staffing. there was no influx of excessive staffing when president obama came to the white house. and the dog walker she mentions is in reality the white house groundskeeper. cnn's dana bash attempted to follow up with bachmann about what he had said. the as a result, both women out of breath and a dramatic shift in topic. >> what i want to ask you about is the fact that you talked about the excesses that he's engaged in, the fact that he has a dog walker which is not true. >> the big point of my speech was about benghazi. this was an absolute disaster. >> you also made specific accusations about the president
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spending money that other presidents also made. >> the real issue is there are four americans that are dead. the secretary of state was not in conversation with a secretary of defense or with the chair of the joint chiefs of staff. >> i think that's an important point. if you want to focus on that -- >> that's it. that's what's important. do you want to talk about dog handlers and there's four americans killed? >> congresswoman, you're the one who put it up. >> of course, this is the first time michele bachmann has commented on lavish spending by president obama. he said his trip to india would cost money. the massively inflated figure obama used, or rather michelle did, originally anonymous source in mumbai and totally discredited. next, when you hear that web members of the westboro church is going to show up at a church, they are not welcome. the group is united in the belief that god, god, hates gays. and they go around to events
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like military funerals attempting to spread their message. anyway, when the house across the street from the church, their church in topeka, kansas, went up for sale last year, one person saw an opportunity and bought the place. take a look at the new paint job. there you have it. the individual who bought the home across the westboro baptist church is home of the group called planting peace. newest headquarters is a statement, isn't it, of gay pride. they've got to look at that across the street now. up next, how big a problem is racism in the tea party? we talk to filmmaker behind a new documentary called "black tea" about why some african-americans joined the tea party. this is going to be a hot debate coming up here.
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welcome back. one of the more unsettling takeaways from this week's or last week's cpac conference from a video from a breakout session called trump the race card. are you sick and tired of being called a racist when you say, when you know you're not one? on monday we showed a short clip from that event where a participant suggested slaves should have been thankful for free food and lodging during
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those hundreds of years of slavery. a documentary was in the room as well and more video of the exchange. let's watch. >> it seems to me like you're reaching out to voters, with the program that you're offering us, at the expense of young white southern males like myself, my demographic. my problem is why can't we be more like booker t. washington republicans. mistakenly what's being unified. >> they call booker t. washington, he was the originator. okay? so when you stay douglas, douglas was not -- >> how about the unity and diversity? >> what about that? we just talked about that. give you an example. here's an example. when he escaped from slavery, i think 10 years or 20 years, he writes a letter and said, i forgive you, for all the things you did to me. >> for giving for giving him shelter and food all them years? >> no.
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>> in a moment we'll be joined by kevin dotson who produced that documentary from which that video was shot, called black tea, about black members, members of the tea party. with us now the professor of political science at the university of washington and author of the upcoming book "change they can't believe in, the tea party and reactionary politics in america." thanks so much, christopher, for joining us. it seems to me that when a lot of us who work on this show and have watched this program we have made a real effort to show the face of the tea party. all the placards up there, the hitler mustaches, the black face, if you will, superimposed on the face of barack obama. these obvious racial things that keep popping up in the visuals. what does your study tell you about the nature of the racial peace here of the tea party? >> well, thanks for having me, chris. my study suggests that there is a strain of racism in the tea party going all of the way back
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to when it began in 2010. there's definitely a racist strain but it goes beyond racism, homophobia as well, chris. >> let's talk about how they fit together. >> sure. >> is it a resumption of the old south, the dreamy nostalgia you get in the old movies like "gone with the wind"? when there are no gays, where blacks were slaves, mexicans were in mexico. i mean, is this what they want? >> that's precisely the case, chris. what we've found out and come up with reactionary conservative. a regular conservative or mainstream conservative recognizes change is necessary to avoid revolutionary change. reactionary conservative wants to go back in time. in the book we tie tea party to the no nothing party of the 1850s, klan of the 1920s. it's the same -- it's the same belief system, chris.
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this idea that they're scared of losing the america that they know and love to these other groups of people. >> yeah, they go back further to the no nothings. you know that history. >> yes. >> that's before the civil war. let me go to the other voice here. kevin dotson, you're working on a film. what have you discovered so far about the black, the attitude towards black within the tea party, the attitude of blacks toward the tea party, if you will? >> the attitude of blacks toward the tea party within the tea party obviously is very favorable. they're involved in tea party for a very interesting reasons, that are -- that have to do with morality, that have to do with conservative values. a number of them has to do with fiscal conservatism. >> yeah. because the tea party seems to be, if anything, anti-federal government. why would an african-american whose history comes from freedom basically the insistence of the federal government federal rights against state rights, why on the issue just basic ethnicity in history why would they want to identify with a
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group that is basically pro-states rights? >> that's one of the questions that compelled me to make this documentary. i became interested in it because i saw dr. king giving the keynote address at glenn beck's rally on the anniversary of the "i have a dream" speech and i became fascinated. why is she involved in it and why are a number of other black people that i found, herman cain, a number of other black people who take different roles, from everyday people, the two or three that i found in the crowd at tea party rallies and conventions to people that are on stage, people who are political pundits, people who are behind political candidates or now senators in texas, for instance. >> okay. >> it's a very fascinating question and one that i explore. >> good luck with your documentary. it seems to me if you look at the issues about not everybody in the tea party, a lot are made of government spending. i can completely understand
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that. it is out of hand. we always have deficits and debt. how can you not worry about that. they do seem integrally involved in phobia, a lot of we don't want anybody else coming to this country. >> yeah, yeah, that's -- that's true, chris. it's this idea that they're losing their country. they fear change. they fear -- they're anxious about the change that we see. we see the browning of america. we see, you know, the gay rights movement is preceding at pace. you know, we saw the first female speaker of the house not too long ago. so it's this change that they have a problem dealing with, chris. and let me get to the point about -- >> why would somebody care -- i always wondered about this. why would somebody who is white care about whether the country is white 100 years from now? they're not going to be here. and the people here would be comfortable with it. your nature will change with the country's nature. it does sound like pure racism.
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if you want the country to be tribally white 100 years from now. i don't know why a black person would care either. why do people speculate the way they think what the country will be like in 100 years. i don't get that. what do you think? >> when we think about what the typical american is, this is shown throughout social science literature. the typical american type is a white male, protestant, straight, married. right? so when we think about any departure from this type is considered the other or considered unamerican, whereas that type considers himself to be the real americans. so they fear this change. this loss of their lifestyle is slipping away. this sort of white male protestant lifestyle. >> well, jackie robinson was a real american, wasn't he? i think. anyway, i'm just trying to go through the list. willie mays, i think he was an american. i think a lot of great americans, not just them who are
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definitely really americans. thank you. i can't imagine the country without them. thank you, kevin dotson, and thank you, good luck with your doc. up next, the democratic establishment is sure that ashley judd is going to take on mitch mcconnell. that is a huge question in kentucky, and now bill and hillary clinton is lining up behind another woman. that's ahead. this is going to be an interesting fight in kentucky. this is "hardball," the place for politics. hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. you always do what they tell you? no... try it, and see what your good driving can save you. you don't even have to switch. unless you're scared. i'm not scared, it's... you know we can still see you. no, you can't. pretty sure we can... try snapshot today -- no pressure.
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this is going to be fun. is ashley judd toxic for democrats in kentucky? it turns out bill clinton thinks so. that's ahead. uncer ] made just a little sweeter... because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet.
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we're back and there's enormous excitement in some democratic circles at the prospect of ashley judd taking her star power to kentucky. but a growing number of democrats and that now includes bill and hillary clinton worry judd's positions will be fatal for her in a conservative state and toxic for the democrats out there. bill clinton has said to prefer 34-year-old kentucky secretary of state. there's even been a facebook page set up by grimes supporters encouraging her to run. democrats would love to knock off mcconnell and are encouraged by his sinking poll numbers, but he knows how to win, after all, he's done it five times already. his editorial director "the huffington post" media group,
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and jim carroll, bureau chief. thank you both. let's start with this -- jim, you first. you first. two women running, two guys talking about it. we're okay. >> we're qualified. >> ashley judd and secretary of state grimes. is the party worried there's too much hollywood attached to ashley judd and that's what people vote against, not for? >> i think it's not as much the hollywood, culturally and politically, kentucky really is a conservative state. it does elect statewide democrats, but the question is whether she can be married, her obvious liberal views can be married to a state that is so culturally and politically conservative. frankly, that's what she's weighing and a lot of democrats are saying more publicly about and worrying about. >> why is she thinking of running? i like her in the movies, but
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who's encouraging her to run in kentucky? >> she is, first of all. she's very ambitious politically and has been for many years, certainly since she's went to harvard to get a graduate degree. she's ambitious for public life. that's number one. number two, i think liberal democrats and democrats in louisville are for her, the congressman from there and a lot of money in louisville and money in louisville that was very important for barack obama. barack obama raised a lot of money in louisville. as a matter of fact, the guy that was the finance chair of obama's reelection campaign is based in louisville. >> might end up being the next ambassador to new england. >> who does he want to hear won it? >> i guess i think at this point they would probably say ashley judd because she doesn't have the ties to kentucky, the political ties, to kentucky. she has a lot of biographical ties to kentucky. she went to uk, grew up there, all that.
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she doesn't really have the on the ground knowledge of the state that somebody like grimes does. >> bill clinton, saw the ear marks of bill clinton, the fingerprints. he likes this candidate grimes, secretary of state, because he liked her father, who helped him. this is so clinton. makes perfect sense. >> first of all, bill clinton regards kentucky as a sub jurisdiction of political power. he won that state twice, last democrat to do so, he feels very much at home there. when i went to that dinner in kentucky that led to my story about judd, clinton was in charge. jerry lundigrin, father of allison grimes, supported hillary clinton heavily. gave to the clinton library, gives to all of hillary's things. when bill clinton came to that dinner, he privately met with allison and jerry, her father.
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allison is like the daughter of a mini establishment in the state. the further complicating factor is that, though, the lundigrin people are at war with the current governor -- >> that's too much. >> it's not too much. it's not too much. >> it all comes out in the wash. >> what judd has to hope is there's a fracture in the establishment of the democratic party. bill clinton will have to heal. >> bill clinton, very popular in the country. i think he's a stalking horse for hillary clinton running for president. very active next year, is that part of this, bill clinton building the wall for hillary? >> i'm sure bill clinton would like to have mcconnell out of there if he could possibly make that happen so when hillary is -- one thing about relationships, guess who catered chelsea's wedding, jerry, allison grimes' father. >> i love to learn.
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it's all i think about in politics, these interesting connections that make all the sense in the world when you find out they are there. thank you, howard fineman, james carroll, excellent name on st. patrick's week. when we return, i'm going to tell you what you can do for the victims of the gun violence in this country, especially the kids in newtown, connecticut. you can do something. it's not hard, you can do it tonight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal.
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